Clemson Football and NC State Basketball: Brothers in Arms
Not buying it? Read on.
1. Both Schools Have Legendary Coaches
Norm Sloan and Frank Howard are legends of the college game in their respective fields.
2. Both Won National Titles in the Early 80's
Not only did both ACC schools wins national championships in the early 80's, but these championships also gave both schools a superiority complex. NC State's title in 1983 was one of the flukiest of all time. At best they were the 15th best team in the nation. Clemson may well have been the best team in 1981, but it was more the established programs having not going undefeated simaltaneously (Nebraska went 9-3, Penn State went 10-2, Pitt went 11-1, Texas went 10-1-1, Alabama went 9-2-1, etc.). The national championship required a perfect storm from both teams. They should be credited for rising to the occasion and taking advantage of the opportunity, but if anything it was a once a generation event. The schools' rabid fans don't quite realize that.
3. Both Schools Believe it is Their Birthright to Win Titles Every Year
NC State sees it position on Tobacco Road beside Duke and North Carolina, and believes it should routinely make Final 4 appearances. Clemson sees its coach with a 'Bowden' surname and believes it should consistently win 10 games a season. I don't know many diehard NC State basketball fans, but every Clemson fan I know was practically creaming themselves over the spring game. A sloppy affair that had in the neighborhood of 30 combined turnovers. Clemson fans should take a lesson from Larry David and curb their enthusiasm.
4. Both Titles Were Won a Loooooooooong Time Ago
Most of the contributors to this blog were not even born when Clemson won their championship. Some geezers like Michael Reese were infants, but the rest of us were in utero. Similarly, I was less than a year old when NC State won their championship. The NCAA tourney didn't even have 64 teams then.
5. Both Schools' Coaches Seem to Always Be on the Hotseat
Herb Sendek has already left NC State and its ungrateful fan base. Despite maintaining bowl eligibility in each of his 7 seasons, Tommy Bowden seems to always be under pressure at Clemson.
They seem pretty similar to me. Your thoughts?
posted by matt at 12:01 AM
5 Comments:
Great points made Matt! I still can't believe you called me a geezer! haha I would have to agree with you on just about all the points. You could almost compare NC State football and Clemson football. NC State fans aren't as crazy as us Clemson fans are though.
11:02 PM
Perhaps you should also compare the number of ACC Championships won.
Don't know the number but I am sure that Clemson has won far more football titles than NC State has in basketball.
11:19 PM
Respectfully I have to disagree:
#1 - Frank Howard is not a legend in the college game. He was a good coach, but he is more of a Clemson legend because of his tenure with the school and his commitment after retiring.
#2 - The year that Clemson won the national title, it was not a fluke. Clemson beat three top 10 teams that year, the only school in the nation to accomplish that feat. Those wins included a road victory over top ten North Carolina and a victory over Herschel Walker, defending national champion, and top five Georgia. N.C. State was sort of a fluke though, I will agree with that.
#3 - I think it is legitimate that Clemson expect to win the ACC title. Until the addition of BC, Miami, and VT, Clemson was one of the few schools perceived to have the arms to keep up with FSU. We have a stadium that seats 80,000 plus (only FSU had that in the ACC other than Clemson). We were the only school that put an obvious commitment towards football over basketball (other than FSU).
#4 - Yes, the titles were won a long time ago, but check out how long it Texas had went without a national title before last year. What about Southern Cal until a couple of years ago? National titles are hard to achieve for most schools. How about looking at bowl game appearances since 1981? You will find that we have been to more bowl games since 1981 than NC State has NCAA tournaments in basketball?
#5 - Bowden is only on the hotseat for the national media. It makes a good story, that is all.
Also, Clemson fans were excited about the spring game, but the results of spring games are skewed. After all, the defenses have seen the offenses for two plus weeks. There are obviously going to be turnovers.
11:44 PM
alright, some logic infused into this silly comparison. good work, Jeff.
but yeah, NC State does have unreasonably high expectations based on past deliverance.
9:19 AM
Reese, my humblest apologies for the geezer comment. Perhaps enlightened elderly gentlemen would have been better.
Jeff,
1. Frank Howard is in the college football hall of fame, so some believe he is a legend.
2. In no way am I insinuating that Clemson was not a great team in 1981. In fact, Clemson was exponentially more worthy of the monicer of national champ in 1981 than NC State in 1983. I'm simply saying that undefeated season was a once in a lifetime experience.
3. Rational minds can differ. I don't think its legitimate for Clemson to expect a conference title since they haven't won one since 1991.
4. Texas did go 35 years between titles, but they won 10 conference titles in the interrim (most recent 1996 before national title) and won 10 games 10 times (including 2001-2004). SC went 25 years between titles, but won 8 conference titles (2002 most recent) and won 10 games thrice. Clemson has won 5 conference titles (none since 1991) and won 10 games thrice.
5. Whatever you say.
6:19 PM
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