Audio: Reese and Matt talk Clemson Baseball and 2006 College Football Pre-season Rankings
Steve Spurrier ----- Clemson Baseball Coach Jack Leggett
Part 1 Part 2
posted by James Reese at 10:06 PM
Monday, May 29, 2006
Steve Spurrier ----- Clemson Baseball Coach Jack Leggett
Part 1 Part 2Contributors
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17 Comments:
Reese,
Your crazy about Florida, they are going to win the SEC and finish in the top 5 this year!
10:47 PM
I would disagree with Matt's comment about first year quarterbacks. Here is a list of notable exceptions to his comment that first year QB's typically do not do well:
(1) Tee Martin - national championship in his first year
(2) Michael Vick - national championship appearance in his first year
(3) Marcus Vick - ACC championship appearance in his first year
(4) Cody Hodges - 9-3 in his first year as a starter at Texas Tech
(5) Erik Ainge
(6) DJ Shockley
Those are six that came to mind immediately after listening to the conversation.
Also, I think you need to keep in mind that Will Proctor is a 5th year senior, playing in a system where traditionally quarterbacks have thrived (regardless of how much or how little experience they have had).
12:15 AM
Donnie,
If Florida had Ron Zook coaching them, I might would agree with you! ha
9:25 AM
Reese,
Donnie is right. There is no way that Florida finishes outside of the top 20 this year. They are loaded with talent, and Urban Meyer has had a year to find out what SEC football is all about. I'm not saying they are going to finish top 5 or win a conference championship, but I seriously doubt they drop outside of the top 20.
9:33 AM
(1)Oklahoma replaces 2004 starter Jason White with Rhett Bomar and goes from 12-1 t0 8-4
(2)Oklahoma St replaces Donovan Woods with Al Pena and goes from 7-5 to 4-7
(3)Connecticut replaces Dan Orlovsky with Matt Bonislawski and goes from 8-4 to 5-6
(4)Arkansas replaces Matt Jones with Robert Johnson (and later Casey Dick) and goes from 5-6 to 4-7
(5)Purdue replaces Kyle Orton with Brandon Kirsch and goes from 7-5 to 5-6
(6)Cal replaces Aaron Rodgers with Joseph Ayoob abd goes from 10-2 to 8-4
That's 6 counterexamples from 2005, not the last 8 seasons. The ones who do well stick out, but they just arent that common. All things being equal, I'd rather my quarterback be a returning starter.
Charlie Whitehurst sure thrived in that system.
6:42 PM
(1) Rhett Bomar - FRESHMAN
(2) Al Pena - SOPHOMORE
(3) Matt Bonislawski - JUNIOR
(4) Casey Dick - FRESHMAN
Robert Johnson - SOPHOMORE
(5) Brandon Kirsch - SOPHOMORE
(6) Joseph Ayoob - JUNIOR
Rob Spence spent four years at Toledo as OC, and all four years, his starting quarterbacks ranked in the top 15 in the nation in passing efficiency. That was four years with THREE different quarterbacks.
Did I forget to mention that while at Louisiana Tech, Luke McNown was ranked in the top 10 under the leadership of Spence?
Oh, Charlie Whitehurst also finished 39th in the nation in passing efficiency...better than Michael Robinson (Penn State), better than Brodie Croyle (Alabama), better than Jared Zabransky (Boise State), better than JAY CUTLER (Vanderbilt, top 10 draft pick).
I would agree that I would rather have a returning starter at quarterback, but faced with an alternative, I certainly don't think that a 5th YEAR SENIOR under the leadership of a guy who has proven that he can take quarterbacks and turn them into productive QB's will more than suffice.
What do you have to say about that???
11:11 PM
Relax guys, I assure you, my digs at Clemson are not personal.
Here's one SR QB I can remember from 2005: Matt Baker at UNC
The Heels went from 6-6 and a bowl to 5-6, and more importantly went from scoring over 26 points per game to 18 per game.
At Toledo Spence's teams got to play against few string division 1 teams. In his 4 seasons there against BCS schools the Rockets went 2-7 and averaged a little over 21 points per game while going 34-8 in all other contests and averaging 36 and a half points per game. At Louisiana Tech Spence had the services of an NFL-caliber quarterback in Luke McCown. Take a glance at the schedule La Tech played that season.
In addition, passing efficiency is an extremely flawed way to rate quarterbacks. It puts too much emphasis on completion % and doesn't account for sacks or running ability. Every team you mentioned averaged more points per game except Alabama. Robinson and Zabransky were also good runners and Cutler had the least talent around him of any QB.
Does Clemson have a chance to win 10 games and win the ACC? Sure. But to expect it to happen I believe is pure folly.
7:38 AM
Matt,
Your argument is flawed. The reason it is flawed is because while it is true that Toledo did not fare well against BCS conference teams, you have to remember that they were playing without BCS talent. An accurate assessment of their system would pit them against other teams without BCS-like talent. Now that he is at Clemson, Spence has BCS talent, and is playing teams that are on par with him.
You are correct that Luke McNown is an NFL quarterback. Have you ever thought to give Spence credit for developing him into an NFL quarterback? Much as he did at Toledo for Bruce Gradkowski (whose numbers decreased significantly after Spence left before his senior season by the way).
By the way, passing efficiency is the best way to determine the mark of a quarterback. Any football coach will tell you that he wants a quarterback who will complete passes. I would rather my quarterback go 9-11 for 89 yards rather than 2-11 for 89 yards. Going 9-11 for 89 yards probably means that I have three scores, where as 2-11 for 89 yards probably means that I have two scores, and two punts (or turnovers). It should not take into account sacks, because more times than not, sacks are not the fault of the quarterback.
Also, why don't we look at the non-conference schedules of Vanderbilt and Penn State...and the conference schedule of Boise State before we start to jump to any conclusions about points per game. Those teams played some cupcakes in their non-conference slate, where as Clemson did play Texas A&M and South Carolina.
2:24 PM
Matt, thanks for the love. Clemson wins 10 and you know it.
3:08 PM
Jeff,
Completion % is important, but it is given too much credit in the efficiency formula. You cited an extreme example. To quote Donnie Parks: No Shit. I would rather have a QB that completes 82% of his passes than one that completes 18%. Most of the time the difference is only a few percentage points. Charlie Whitehurst ranks so high (41st instead of 39th)because he completed 67% of his passes. He has the worst TD/INT ratio of any QB in the top 44. And according to you, sacks should not be included because they are usually not the quarterbacks fault. That's open for debate, but so should we not give credit to a quarterback who has great receivers that catch anything he throws to them or who turn short catches into long touchdowns? Football is a team game, and arbitrarily deciding when to credit a quarterback for success (yards and touchdowns) and when not to (sacks) doesn't make any sense. You also didn't mention running ability which is completely left out of the efficiency system. That is whta made Michael Robinson and Jared Zabransky such good quarterbacks. Should the 11 touchdowns Robinson and Zabransky ran for simply be overlooked?
I never said anything about Spence not being a good coordinator. I simply do not view him as a demi-god like many Tiger fans do.
As far as non-conference schedule, Texas A&M finsihed 5-6, South Carolina was 7-5, and I believe Clemson also played Temple (0-11). So let's not go crazy about the Tigers schedule strength. Vandy's non-conference schedule was certainly easier (Wake, Richmond, and Middle Tenn) as was Penn St's (South Florida, Cincinnati, and Central Michigan). However, as stated before, Jay Cutler had less talent around him than some HS QBs and when removing non-conference games, Penn St still had a higher scoring average than Clemson: 28.2 to 22.2. Also think about how low you dipped in that argument: Clemson's offense, when removing non-conference schedule was better than Vanderbilts. COngratulations.
5:32 PM
Spoken like someone who crunches stats and has never been on a field before.
10:47 AM
Grow Up Guys
1:39 PM
True I have never played college football, but I'm pretty sure male gynecologists have never given birth.
6:02 PM
Uh oh the infamous "i was a better HS player" line has been brough out. I seriously doubt many people visiting here were big time prospects.
Clemson at 12 is a little high IMO but if you saw the Champs Sports Bowl you would think Clemson is going to be the national champions the way Bob Davie was pumping them up...although I seem to remember hearing "preseason top 10" about a billion times. Clemson has 3 tough away games for me to crown them as ACC champs (BC, Tech and FSU) but they have everything else to win 9-10 games this season. And if Proctor is even half as good as most Clemson fans seem to think (lets face it, 1 drive against an overrated A&M team and Duke does not make a believer out of me) then Clemson will make serious noise. But just remember that Clemson was close to being undefeated but also 9pts away from not even going to a bowl game this past year.
Reese...WTF are you smoking? I am not sold on Urban Meyer and his offense (even though Time Tebow is perfect for it) working in the SEC. Just too much speed to be running that type of attack. But they are still one of the most talented teams and IMO right behind LSU and Auburn in the SEC. A sure pick to be a top 15 team and win the East.
Of course my homer pick is to watch out for South Carolina in the rankings. Not that I think we will be a great team but we have the easiest schedule we have ever had as IMO our only tough away games are Florida and Clemson (most likely losses) but every other tough or swing game is at home. If we get by UGA then we finish with 9 wins (losses to Auburn, UF and Clemson). Of course thats an optimistic outlook but we win no less then 6 and think we most likely win 7 games.
Tennessee is too good to have another down year but who knows how they will fare. I happen to think they are on a downturn because UGA and UF are really rolling right now and USC with Spurrier is building up some nice talent while Tennessee is no longer cherry-picking the Carolinas for recruits since their home state doesnt have very good football talent. They will still be a good program but I dont look for them to be winning any SEC titles because IMO they are the 5th best SEC team (almost 6 with Bama being right at their toes and USC and Arkansas improving).
My top 5 in no order because I really dont see any team dominant but a few that are a cut above the others. Notre Dame, Ohio State, Texas, USC and LSU. One of those 5 will win the title.
8:02 PM
Good point Matt, but I just believe you are putting too much emphasis on stats.
Kirk, the reason Clemson fans are optimistic about Proctor is because he is the prototypical quarterback for Spence's system, something that Whitehurst was not.
Also, Proctor does not have to do a lot. Clemson has argubably the best backfield in the ACC, probably the best o-line in the ACC, and one of the top four receiving groups in the conference. If he is worth his salt as a college quarterback, that will be fine, as he will not be asked to do much.
1:46 AM
I agree that he will not be asked to do much but why did he not get more playing time last year? We've all heard the rumors about Whitehurst having shoulder problems and only being able to practice a few days a week. So was it TB or Spence being Stubborn and insisting on Whitehurst playing even though most people could see that his shoulder was not at 100%. Or did he give Clemson the best chance at winning?
I know that Proctor fits the system better but other then that I haven't seen anything from him that makes me believe he is going to be better then Charlie Whitehurst. But as you said, it still shouldnt hurt Clemson because they will be better in other areas but I would say that QB will be the position that is going to be your downfall if you dont win your division in the ACC.
7:37 AM
Charlie Whitehurst was a 4 year starter. He had led Clemson to three straight winning seasons. He was getting ready to enter his senior season and he had NFL draft aspirations. Can you imagine the scene if you bench Whitehurst in favor of Proctor right from the get go? It would have been chaos.
Whitehurst was the better QB, Proctor is the better QB for the system...if that makes any sense.
10:41 AM
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